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Dec 31, 2006
Feminists vs. Trannies -- again
Part of the problem of having been consumed by finals, graduation, grading papers, working on my newest project and my mother's illness is that I've not kept up with my blog reading. As such, I missed this great post entitled "I did not come to feminism for this" by Winter over at Desperate Kingdoms.
When you read it -- it's long but very thought provoking and worth it -- be sure to read the related posts and the comments. This is an old issue, but it warms my heart deeply to know that there are people in the world like Winter.
As for the subject matter, I'm simply not going to comment, beyond acknowledging the fact that I know many feminists loath transpeople -- transwomen, in particular. I read this stuff. I just can't bring myself to engage them. I've commented before (specifically as relates to the MWMF). See, especially, this post. But, in the end, I know who I am. I am blessed to have wonderful loving people in my life who accept me as a woman. And, as a person of privilege, I'm able to say "it's all about me". Still, you should go read.
Thanks, Winter.
Also, check out this post, at Angry Brown Butch, which Winter also directed me to.
[UPDATE] In addition to adding my additional commentary below the fold, I found this related link to a petition for the "Declaration and Affirmation on the Importance of Woman-Only Spaces", from Women's Space/The Margins in the comments to a post entitled: "Are Feminists Allowed to be Partnered with Transmen and Transwomen?" It's a great post, and an excellent blog. I signed the petition.
OK, I lied. I can't let these three comments go without my own comments (courtesy, again, of Winter's post):
Just for the record, I do not fear or hate these psychologically damaged boys. I pity them. I do hate that “professionals” can say they are able to magically turn these pitiful guys in a woman. As I said before, they should lose their license to practice medicine by praying on and profiting off the mental problems of these unfortunates.
Or this,
I’d like to take a piss in a public can knowing for a fact there are no boys in there whining “I was born in the wrong body” for fucksake, insisting I refer to him as “she.” Phobic? Hardly. Resentful that women lose yet another space of their own? You betcha big time.
Or this,
Sex is static. It cannot be changed. Men cannot be frogs, they cannot be giraffes, they cannot be trees, they cannot be rocks, and they cannot be women. Get over it.
Comment 1: I don't want your pity, even if you think I'm a psychologically damaged boy or a pitiful guy. And, it's preying NOT praying. Sheesh.
Comment 2: I would rather you NOT take a piss in public, thank you very much. Personally, I try to find restrooms, preferably ones that have stalls. And you think you've lost your space?! Trying walking in a transwoman's shoes for a day. Born in the wrong body? No. But does that mean that sex is reducible simply to a set of chromosomes? What controls? If not phobic, then why do you care?
Comment 3: How must you hate yourself to compare women to frogs, giraffes, trees and rocks. Well, at least the first three are living. But, rocks? Does petrification count? Try it, would you? My god. Do you even know what a woman is? Would you please (please!) tell me?
OK. I'm done. Have a nice day (and a terrific New Year)!
08:11 AM in Transgenderism | Permalink
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Reading an excellent post to which Denise pointed, as well as thinking the matter out a little at ChaliceChick, has led me to wonder whether I lack respect for transsexuality. I know I respect transsexual people, but that of course... [Read More]
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Comments
Thank you for posting the link to Winter's site. That was a really awesome post!
Posted by: Melissa | Dec 31, 2006 9:15:45 AM
Winter's post may be one of the Top 10 Posts I've read this past year. After all the ugliness on display the past week-plus, it's a single act of beauty that -- to my mind -- ALMOST redeems the experience.
Winter deserves big old kudos -- and a Gin & Tonic ;-).
I feel exhausted from reading, and writing only a little. I cannot imagine what you, or Winter, or some of the WOC bloggers are going through right now. I find it disgusting, in the end, that the biggest toll from all of this -- yet again -- is that "feminist" dialogue results in still more WOC bloggers ceasing to blog. This silencing and choosing protective silence (if that is possible?) truly bothers me.
Posted by: greymatters | Dec 31, 2006 9:30:28 AM
You're welcome, Melissa! We try to be of service! :)
I'll share that G&T with Winter, GM, if you will! Maybe we should all raise a toast to each other tonight! :)
I don't think the WOC bloggers will be forever gone. And, sometimes, swimming upstream becomes so very tiring that I can understand the desire/need to get out of the river once in a while.
Posted by: Denise | Dec 31, 2006 1:55:35 PM
I'm glad you found the post helpful. Denise I think you're right not to engage these people on their terms and I also think you have to protect yourself from that kind of hatred.
I am trying to understand the underlying "radical feminist" arguments, but I'm struggling!
I think we could all do with a G&T.
Posted by: Winter | Jan 1, 2007 5:55:33 PM
Here, here on the G&T's.
My head still hurts, not from NYE though. All that reading and thinking just got to be too draining, particularly when it ceased to be satisfying to my soul (assuming I have one ;-) ).
Posted by: greymatters | Jan 2, 2007 3:03:31 AM
Thanks again for the post and your loving thoughtfulness, Winter.
I confess to not having a G&T on New Year's Eve, but I did raise my glass of wine in a toast to you both as I wished us all a joyous New Year (besides, I didn't have a special bottle of excellent gin gifted to me ...).
GM, you have a magnificient soul. As Winter said, sometimes you just have to choose to not engage hatred on its own terms. Doing so often leads to being drained (and definitely NOT being satisfied).
I kept following links and reading posts until, like you, I just couldn't do any more. I got alternatively sad, outraged, and discouraged. In the end, I always come back to ground with the thought that there is no universal experience of womanhood or femaleness. We are labeled only by our permission and ourselves. The people in my life, and I, label me a woman. I can live with the idea that some people define me differently. They do so out of ignorance and stereotype as they don't know me. As a line in some post somewhere that I recently read said: Any attempt to draw a line of distinction between peoples inevitably crosses over someone else's life experience or her body. (Or something to that effect).
Hugs to you both!
Posted by: Denise | Jan 2, 2007 6:15:36 AM
Thank you, Denise. I try on the soul thing -- and next year, the gin is on me!
In retrospect, I kept coming back to what seems to be an intersection of two quotes -- words I have pasted above my computer:
Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on the earth. I said then and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free -- Eugene V. Debs
-- and --
“There is always something to do. There are hungry people to feed, naked people to clothe, sick people to comfort and make well. And while I don't expect you to save the world I do think it's not asking too much for you to love those with whom you sleep, share the happiness of those whom you call friend, engage those among you who are visionary and remove from your live those who offer you depression, despair and disrespect.” -- Nikki Giovanni
Now, I'm not a socialist, nor am I a fan of Giovanni's poetry (for the most part) -- but there is something here so obvious and elemental that reading too much anecdote, buttressed by theory, under the guise of being provactive made me shudder bodily. I recoil instinctively from what underlies such things, and I sure as hell do not need that in my life.
And, Winter cut through and distilled it all. And, I must say, I enjoyed many of the more difficult, heartfelt posts -- even if drained at times.
Posted by: greymatters | Jan 2, 2007 6:31:04 PM
The petition that you link to is fairly problematic. Here are some excerpts in the “fine print” of the petition (you have to scroll down the petition page a good bit to find these excerpts):
“We recognize, support and affirm those women whose separatism is part of a practice of woman (born woman) only spirituality and their right to practice woman (born woman) only spirituality in spaces set aside for that purpose.”
“We reject the theory that underpins the idea and practice of trans, both transsexuality and transgender. We understand notions of trans or genderqueer to be mostly about gender enforcement, about purveying of gender stereotypes, and as such, we find them to be confining and disrespectful of women as women, rather than liberating.”
Essentially, the petition supports those gatherings that exclude transwomen from women’s space and argues that transgender/transsexual/genderqueer people base their identities on a body of belief that supports regressive gender roles that are harmful to women.
One more thing: the woman who runs the blog called Women’s Space has expressed a fair degree of transphobia in the past. If you dig deep in Women’s Space’s archives, you will eventually find blatant examples of her underlying attitudes. These days, she’s doing a much better job of hiding her transphobia—but it’s still there. She’s also one of the creators of the petition that you link to.
Furthermore, a number of people have made transphobic comments on Women’s Space without any critique or challenge by Heart. For example, on August 28th, 2006, Heart posted her opinions about women only space and the Michigan Women’s Music Festival:
http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2006/08/28/woman-only-space/#comments
If you scroll down, you will see several transphobic comments, the worst of which was made by a commenter called Angry Scientist. I tried to post a complaint to the same thread about Angry Scientist’s comment. However, I discovered that Heart reviews all of her comments before allowing them to post (or at least, this was the case back in August). I know this because my complaint was never posted. Although she briefly mentioned Angry Scientist’s comment in a latter post (see her September 7th post) and people’s concerns about his post, she never challenged his hateful attitudes.
After thinking about this, I connected the dots: Heart reviewed the comments on the August 28th thread before allowing them to post, thereby implying that she knowingly allowed transphobic comments to be posted. To make matters worse, she filtered out complaints about these hateful comments. These are not the actions of person who respects transgender people.
Anyway, I’ve burned up enough bandwidth on this comment. Thanks for putting this blog out there for the rest of us, by the way. I’ve had you in my bookmarks for many months now. I enjoy your writing.
Posted by: StacyM | Jan 3, 2007 1:42:44 AM
(((GM))) I love (LOVE!) those quotes and will borrow them liberally. Thank you. It does seem, doesn't it?, that sometimes your instincts (to pull back from engagement with hatred, for example) are your best sources of guidance.
Stacy, thank you so much for reading and now for commenting. Your comments require an additional post, which I will put up shortly.
Posted by: Denise | Jan 3, 2007 7:57:42 AM
